Curse

Kai Nui · Aug 18, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

The main thing I hate about pets is resing them and being disabled. It just dies before I can heal it, then I have to res it again. It's pretty stupid, that's why I just bring charm animal along and don't worry about healing it. If it dies, it can go to hell.

Weezer_Blue · Aug 18, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

If it dies, it can go to hell.

That's my policy for stupid people when I'm playing healer.

Kai Nui · Aug 18, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

That's my policy for stupid people when I'm playing healer.

Really!? That's where I got my policy for pets in the first place. Stupid people run in and just die, and I noticed pets do the same thing pretty much. Well yeah.

Xomah of Denyle · Aug 18, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27

/signed

Phoenix Denfer · Aug 18, 2005, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Put me in for the combining of Comfort/Charm. Effectively, Charm becomes Comfort once the pet is charmed, and I agree, changing pets would mean you need to buy a new charm skill, using a skill point, with maybe the exception of pre-searing, as there is a good variety of pets to try there before committing to one.

I would not change the level of heal on comfort, and would leave the skill disable feature as a penalty.

All other comments concerning better AI and commands.. agreed. When I did the bonus mission where we awaken the druids, my group had three rangers with pets, they had to let them die as they continually attacked the jungle guardians.

What sense does that make?

I'm not happy with the elite idea though, as this should be something we have access to much earlier on. Already too many of the most useful skills are at the end of the game, lets not make something that effects all rangers and their reasons to pursue beastmastery so difficult to obtain.

If I'm going to go beastmastery, I want to be practicing the skills and learning my timing before I get to the jungle.

I miss my cat a lot, but I just don't see bringing down a coop mission because I have been rendered useless when my cat dies and I'm engaged in a mob and can't res him.

-Phoenix

Flame · Aug 18, 2005, 02:18 PM // 14:18

At level 20, you have 480 health, with no runes or upgrades increasing it. I think sacrificing a skill slot for hundreds of extra health on another target is worth it.

Comfort Animal is already Orison of Healing and Resurrection for a pet, making it also take up the skill slot penalty for having a tank would be too unbalanced.

The skill disable-penalty is a good one, in my opinion. If you bring a pet, you should have primarily pet skills anyway, so its death should mean you cannot use them anyway. In addition, it prevents you from instantly resurrecting a fallen pet, and encourages you to use it for something other than a distraction.

To comment on the original post, the Doppelganger fight often requires people to drastically change targets. If you bring all pet attacks, you get a pet, then your Doppelganger is reduced to using regular attacks, making it much too easy for Beastmasters. My Monk had to change to a build using all Mesmer skills to beat the Doppelganger, it should be no trouble to switch builds for a single fight.

Beastmasters have as much health as any other Ranger. Using an Interrupt build, I have only three bow attacks, and the rest are all skills to keep me alive. If you brought two skills to keep you alive, Comfort Animal and Charm Animal, you still have four spots for skills. People have to devote time to kill your pet, which you can heal, and time to kill you, whom you can heal.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 20, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

On an eralier suggestion reguarding WoW's pet control...

Having actually now Played WoW I do agree that it's method of pet control would be a godsend.

So many times in the Tombs we've tried to biat out a camping team with arrow fire only to see our pets rush in. Nothing short of running an entire compass legth of the screen get's them to stop their assult.
A tiny pet bar abouve the skill bar with attack, Withdraw, agressive and defesive would be so so welcome.

Thanas · Aug 20, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

My minions have little to no effect on Mursaat. Should they be infused too?

Thomasuwoo · Aug 21, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Try using bone feinds instead.

Sturmkoenig · Aug 21, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

changing pets would mean you need to buy a new charm skill, using a skill point

totally against that!
i got 3 chars and each of them has exactly zero skill points, untill i come to UW or FoW every week once...
and when i have 1 or 2 points, then i mainly use them to cover up some more missing skills, that i need for the one or other new pvp build...
so investing a skill point to switch pets would be the worst solution ever for me!
in addition to that:

Quote:

Charm becomes Comfort once the pet is charmed

that was not my idea at all!
the normal charm animal skill still exists, and can be used to *only* charm an animal and take it with you.
with the combined form of charm & comfort, you cannot charm anythink but take the pet with you!
that was my idea, just a little bit different but it matters, when you thought about buying a new skill for a new pet...

Quote:

I'm not happy with the elite idea though, as this should be something we have access to much earlier on

i was (as many times) mostly thinking about pvp.
anyway, once upon a time...
you could get healing hands right after LA, so why not be able to get that new elite as well in such an "early" part of the game.

Quote:

If you bring a pet, you should have primarily pet skills anyway, so its death should mean you cannot use them anyway

1st: i have plenty of builds where i only need 1 or 2 pet attacks, instead of "primarily" pet skills
2nd: it's not the death-disabling of skills, that we're talking about, but the rez-disabling! it is logically, that when your pet dies, you become unconzentrated for a matter of seconds, so that you cannot use any skills, but when you rez your pet, it's not you who should be unable to use skills, but the pet. that's why i think, only pet attacks should be disabled after rezzing a pet.

emil knight · Aug 21, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmkoenig

2nd: it's not the death-disabling of skills, that we're talking about, but the rez-disabling! it is logically, that when your pet dies, you become unconzentrated for a matter of seconds, so that you cannot use any skills, but when you rez your pet, it's not you who should be unable to use skills, but the pet. that's why i think, only pet attacks should be disabled after rezzing a pet.

Well I disagree with not having all your skills disabled when your pet dies, aside from the ability to rez that pet.

If you bring a pet to battle, you should lose your skills for a time when it dies, because that pet is an extension of you and you are responsible for it's well-being. I do agree that at least your pet rez should work though, to at least get your pet back as quickly as possible, since you are bringing skills that are pet only. Losing your pet in battle while you have a bunch of pet skills in your bar is like losing an arm in battle. It's something that no other class in the game has to suffer.

I also do agree that Charm Pet should be a one time skill, and that your pet should join you whenever you have any pet only skills in your bar. Obivously if you are using pet skills, you'll need your pet to use them, so why not make all the skills linked to it?

Sturmkoenig · Aug 21, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Well I disagree with not having all your skills disabled when your pet dies,(...)

did i say anything different?

Quote:

aside from the ability to rez that pet.

i cannot agree.
being able to rez your pet immediatly with a percentage of health (as it is now), you would like instant-heal him for like 250hp while rezzing him.

Quote:

Losing your pet in battle while you have a bunch of pet skills in your bar is like losing an arm in battle. It's something that no other class in the game has to suffer.

that's why no other class has an extra 500hp sweeping around them and doing as much dmg as a warrior (if skilled properly) while the ranger himself can still shoot around with his bow. (or use his secundary profession, whatsoever)

Lykan · Aug 21, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

The pet infusen is welcome, having not used my pet for a awhile can someone tell me if its automatically done when you infuse your armour or is there a seperate option when you talk to the seer?

Thanas · Aug 21, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Try using bone feinds instead.

Makes no difference. 1-2 hits on a lvl 18 bone fiend and they are dead.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 22, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

I'm against combining Charm Animal and Comfort animal because it's such a powerful combination. That said why not combine Charm animal with an extra attack slot for your pet?
When you equip charm animal you get the option to pair it up with one of the pet Attacks.

And Thanas, Every minion that cops a blow instead of you has done it's job.

emil knight · Aug 22, 2005, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmkoenig

did i say anything different?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmkoenig

that's why i think, only pet attacks should be disabled after rezzing a pet.

Yes, you did. I said you should still lose ALL your skills, you are only talking about pet skills. The ONLY skill that I don't believe should be disabled is the ability to rez your pet. You would still have to wait for the recharge on everything else before you could us it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmkoenig

i cannot agree.
being able to rez your pet immediatly with a percentage of health (as it is now), you would like instant-heal him for like 250hp while rezzing him.

Wouldn't you want your arm back and working a well as possible as quickly as possible? If all your other skills are disabled anyway, how effective would a pet be when first rezzed? You would have to work damn hard to get him clear of a fight to get him healed so you wouldn't lose your skills AGAIN, so how over powered would that really be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sturmkoenig

that's why no other class has an extra 500hp sweeping around them and doing as much dmg as a warrior (if skilled properly) while the ranger himself can still shoot around with his bow. (or use his secundary profession, whatsoever)

Too bad that "kite" has extremely poor AI. All it takes is getting within attack range and it pretty much goes off on it's own... best you can do at that point is run your commands and hope you can kill your target quickly, before it takes out your pet and kills all your skills.

Truth is, Beast Mastery as an attribute line (I'm talking the line as a WHOLE, not specific skills), is a bit weak. Since we only get 8 skills and one of them has to be Charm, and it's silly to NOT bring Comfort if you expect to use your pet the entire time, you're already investing 25% of your bar to a pet. Then , you'll need about 2 or 3 skills to increase his effectiveness. Now that you've invested over half your bar to your pet alone, try finding enough other ranger skills AND get some from your secondary.

Most of the time, Beast Mastery is more novelty than anything else.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 22, 2005, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by emil knight

Most of the time, Beast Mastery is more novelty than anything else.

But not all the time. *Cough* Pet build *Cough*

Sturmkoenig · Aug 22, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

regarding the AI, we all hope that to be fixed (looking at the other former posts here)
at this moment, it is quiet difficult to make up a good pet build, but it is at least possible!
with the future improvements, that are said to be made, it should be easier then... i hope... HURRY A.NET

Dologan · Aug 22, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

I've just recently started a Beast Master ranger and I'd like to second the suggestion to do away with the useless charm animal skill just to have the pet around. Confort Animal is simply a must if you don't want your pet to be just a disposable curiosity and you need at least two pet skills to make the pet more or less useful. That's a whole half of the skills for a single ranger attribute line, leaving just a mere 4 slots for the rest of your ranger and whatever you chose as secondary profession. IMHO, the best solution would be to limit Charm Animal to just charming and to make any pet skill automatically bring the pet. That would free up one slot that provides a very welcome breathing room to make the ranger something more than a dumb NPC's puppeteer.

Another main gripe, which has already been mentioned, is the lack of automatic revival of pets and, perhaps more annoyingly, that pets are not ported together with you at cutscenes: they just stay wherever they were at the moment, usually meaning certain death and, in many circumstances, an inability to go back to revive it, which renders the Beast Master almost useless for the rest of the mission (as happened to me yesterday at Thirsty River. Pets are NOT disposable minions that can be left behind! To a Beast Master, they are as important as a weapon. How would a warrior feel to find out that after a cutscene (or an automatic revival) their hammer was left behind where they were/died?

Also, I want to second the suggestion, nay, plead to have the pet's AI improved so that they don't get stuck at stupid places or become a damn liability for coordinated gameplay. Some simple "stay"/"attack" commands would be enough.

Finally, I'm okay with with the skill disabling with the pet's death/res, even if it can be quite annoying (especially at mid-skill, urgh). It's a fair price to pay to have a whole other character at your command (well, more or less

). Considering that Comfort Animal is instantaneous, the 8 second disabling is not bad at all. Compare that to an 8 second "Restore Life" which leaves the character unable to attack or run and begging for interruption. Just use apply poison or some other preparation before ressing your pet and poison/bleed/interrupt/whatever while you recover your skills.

Thanas · Aug 23, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

I suppose you right Thomas. Just seems pointless taking them later on in the game, especially when each fiend costs you 25 energy and maintaing them is such a difficult job. I mean I'm sorta glad that I don't use them anymore, cause it gives me space to experiment. Ah nevermind.